In this episode of Speaking Spanish for Beginners, we’ll provide tips on how to have a good mindset when speaking Spanish as a second language.
Our special guest, Brenden Kumarasamy, founder of MasterTalk lends his expertise in effective communication to help us overcome any fears or anxieties when conversing in a new language.
We’ll also share some exercises to help you feel more comfortable while speaking, eliminate filler words, and work on improving your pronunciation through karaoke.
Tune in and get ready to confidently speak Spanish!
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Conversation Transcript
Marco: Brenden. Hey, nice to meet you.
Brenden: Likewise. Marco. It’s great to be here.
Marco: Brenden, can you introduce yourself to the audience of Speaking Spanish for Beginners?
Brenden: Yeah, for sure, Marco. Thanks for having me. My name is Brenden Kumarasamy. I’m the founder of MasterTalk, which is a YouTube channel I started to help the world master the art of communication and public speaking. And I also trained a lot of executives on how to speak as well.
Marco: That’s very interesting. And I’m curious about this: Public speaking. What is it exactly? What does it consist of?
Brenden: Yeah, Marco, it’s a great question. For me, communication and public speaking is the same thing, which is how do we share an idea, how do we convey an idea in a way that helps a specific audience achieve a specific outcome. Let me repeat that again: Communication is sharing an idea that helps us achieve a specific outcome for a specific audience.
Now, that could mean a hundred different things. That could mean speaking on a stage and getting products and services sold. But it could also mean convincing your significant other, your wife, your husband that “hey, we should have Mexican food tonight and not Chinese food tonight”. So that’s communication, too.
Marco: Right. So very interesting, especially for people learning Spanish in this case. And I also heard you’re fluent in English, French, and Tamil, right? So how was that learning other languages for you? What was the experience like?
Brenden: For sure. Marco So for me, it was largely an accident. So I’m based in Montreal, in Canada, and for those who don’t know, Montreal is a city where you need to know how to speak French if you want to do well. And I didn’t know the language because my first language is English. So my parents sent me to French school so that I would learn the language and get better at it. So the reason I practiced is because I was forced to the environment. Everyone speaks French.
So for the first two years of my education, Marco, I didn’t know a single word of French. I didn’t understand what everybody was saying. When you’re young, as you know, you pick up languages really quickly. So by grade three or four, I was fluent in French. Then I got better at it.
My third language is my mother tongue, Tamil. The way I learned that, funny enough, wasn’t through school, it was through movies. So I could always understand Tamil because my mom’s fluent in it, and that’s what I mostly speak to her in. But I actually never learned Tamil fluent, like, formally. So I never went to school for it. I would watch movies, I would watch how my parents would talk, and I would just replicate it until I got decent enough to have a conversation around it. But I can’t read or write in Tamil.
Marco: That’s interesting. And what about Spanish?
Brenden: So my only experience with Spanish is I’m very good at not… I don’t sing well, but I’m very good at pronouncing Spanish words when I’m singing songs in Spanish. Like, I can do Enrique Iglesias “Alguien soy yo“, right? So it sounds whenever I’m speaking, it sounds like I know Spanish, but I really don’t. I just got to sing it.
Marco: But that’s also interesting when you practice with songs for the sounds. And that’s also a very good method to improving your pronunciation, but we will get into that in more detail as the conversation goes. So, Brendan, what are some common mistakes when people speak or things that normally are hard when we’re learning a different language? …And when we have to face these tasks of doing or giving a presentation in a different language? What would be the common mistakes?
Brenden: Yeah, for sure, Marco. So there’s a couple. I would say the first one is mindset, where a lot of us, when we try and speak in our second language —and I’m a great example of this, because I had to speak in French my whole life, which is my second language— I always had the fear around “Oh, my God. I’m not pronouncing this word correctly. I’m going to do a bad job. My grammar isn’t exactly right.” Whereas the truth is, your audience doesn’t really care unless you do.
So if you go into a speech and you go “Oh, Marco, I’m so sorry I didn’t have all my words together”, then your audience will start to think, “Oh, there must be something wrong with this presentation.” But the other side of the equation is somebody like Jack Ma, who is the founder of Alibaba. He’s like a multibillionaire, people can look him up online. His English is so broken, but nobody cares because Jack Ma doesn’t care when he speaks. So it’s all about the energy that you emanate. That’s what I would say is one big mistake, is to change your mindset around. There’s somebody in your ethnicity who speaks broken English and is 100 times more successful than we are.
So use that person as a role model. So if we’re in the Chinese community, look at Jack Ma. If we’re in the Spanish community, look at somebody else. If we’re in the Indian community, look at somebody else, like Sundar Pichai, and follow these thought leaders that look like us, that sound like us, but that are much more successful than we are.
Marco: You know, that’s a very interesting tip, because normally I see this in the presidents of Latin America. Most of them speak Spanish, but when you hear them speak in English, they certainly lack this amazing pronunciation. They don’t have very good pronunciation, but their confidence… The message is clear, and the confidence they have is… They get the message across. So it’s very interesting point that you have to have the right mindset.
Brenden: Absolutely right. That’s the one piece. And then the other piece is structure, Marco, which is what’s a structured way and how we can present in a second language. This is what I used to do. So I would write out the presentation in my first language. Because at the end of the day, the difference in your first and your second language, Marco, whether it’s English, whether it’s Spanish, whether it’s anything else, is culture and vocabulary. That’s it.
So one is culture, which means the reason you’re so good at your first language is not just because you learned it, it’s because your culture is immersed in it. Every time you go shopping, every time you go to school, every time you talk to your parents. So you learn the lingo.
Whereas in vocabulary is the second piece, which is words that sound right in your first language when you translate them, sometimes they don’t make any sense. So like in my case eye contact in French is contact de l’oeil, If you translate it directly. But that makes no sense. Like, if you translate it directly. That’s the only two differences. So the way you fix it is by writing it on your first language, then translate it into the one you need to speak it in, whether it’s Spanish or English.
And then the third step is to do a vocabulary test, Marco, which is you present your script to somebody whose native language, whose first language is the one you need to speak in.
Marco: It’s great. That’s a very good tip, because having the presentation in your mind first in your native language and then making adjustments as you go. That’s a very good tip.
Brenden: So another one that you kind of caught a little bit earlier on is one thing I do that’s a weird thing about me —that I don’t think we talked about over email— is I can speak three languages fluently, but I can karaoke in eight. So there’s five other languages that I could sing, like, one song or two songs in each language that I can pronounce really well. Right?
And the reason I do this, and this is a really good practice for articulation and pronunciation, is to practice languages you don’t understand. So let’s say I use an example. Let’s say I went to Italian: “Buongiorno, come stai? Molto bene”, that’s like Italian. Spanish is like: “Vamos a la biblioteca”. English is like: “Hi, how are you?.” Japanese is: ” Ohayōgozaimasu, ogenkidesuka,” which is just: “Hi, good morning. How are you?”.
Notice how I’m able to switch languages really seamlessly? But I don’t know how to speak any of these languages except for English. So the trick is you take one song. That’s what I do in Spanish. It’s actually funny enough. So I take a song like “Alguien soy yo“, right? Like Enrique Iglesias. And then I’ll literally have the text and I’ll have the song, and I’ll just keep redoing it until I get all the pronunciation right. So it feels like I’m a native speaker of the language.
Marco: That’s a very good way to rehearse the pronunciation. Even if you don’t know what the lyrics are saying. The purpose of that is not to get the meaning of that. The only reason you’re doing that is to improve your pronunciation.
Brenden: Exactly.
Marco: And I’m curious about… Because you’re an expert in public presentation. Why are people so afraid of doing this?
Brenden: You know, for me, the reason why people are afraid of communication all comes down to the education system. Think about it. Whenever we learn how to speak in a formal way, in an official way… High school, middle school, elementary school. Whether you’re born in the US, whether you’re born in Canada, whether you’re born in Mexico, whether it’s UK, it doesn’t matter. All of the presentations you give have three fundamental problems.
The first problem, Marco, is all of them are mandatory. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says “Hey, Marco, you want to get breakfast and present all day?” That’s one. Number two is you never get to present something you care about. So it’s never “Hey, Marco, what are you excited about? What do you love to talk about?” No, it’s not about podcasting or Spanish or learning a language. You have to talk about Shakespearean poetry, and you don’t have a choice, so it’s boring. And number three, every presentation you deliver in high school is tied to a punishment. So if you don’t do a great job, you get punished for it. You lose grades. You get told you’re really bad. Which is not what we learn in this podcast, because what we learn in this podcast is of course it’s okay to make mistakes. You’re learning the language and it’s supposed to be fun. But that’s not what’s taught in the education system.
So we grow up believing, Marco, that communication is a chore and nobody wants to get better at doing the dishes.
Marco: That’s very interesting, the section you mentioned about language learning, because you’re right, it feels like a punishment when you’re in school, if you don’t use the right grammar, they will reduce the points you have in that qualification. So that’s absolutely right.
And that’s why also doing this podcast has been a… You know, I’ve tried to change the mindset of people that they don’t have to speak all the time correctly, but as long as you’re communicating effectively and your message is clear, you’re fine. You’re fine. Especially if you’re starting. You don’t want to put all of these barriers of “I have to do it all the time right” when you’re just starting to learn a different language.
Brenden: Absolutely. I completely agree, right? It’s all about keeping the fun, because if it’s not fun, you won’t stay motivated, and if you’re not staying motivated, you won’t be able to learn the language.
Marco: That’s right. So that’s why we have all of this fear of public speaking, which sounds scary for a lot of people, and even more when you’re speaking in a different language. So how then can people maintain their confidence and overcome this fear?
Brenden: Yeah. You know, for me, Marco, the simple idea is do the harder thing. Because if you practice the harder thing, life becomes easier. Let me give you an example of that that isn’t that hard. It’s called the random word exercise.
So pick a word like tissue box or soap or phone or a headphone, and create random presentations out of thin air. Let’s say you pick the word golf, give a 60-second presentation on golf without preparing. And this serves two main purposes. One, it helps you deal with uncertainty because life is filled with it. And the second reason is, if you can make sense out of nonsense, you can make sense out of anything. So if you talk about avocado toast for 45 seconds, it’s really easy for you to go back into something you actually care about. You’re an expert in. That’s what I always encourage people.
What I’ve always found as well, Marco, as a bonus tip, is a lot of my clients who have second languages as English, they love doing the random word exercise because it forces them to practice their vocabulary. Because you have to pick five new words every single day or ten new words. So they learn five or ten new words every single day too. So it helps their vocabulary and their pronunciation as well.
Marco: That’s an excellent exercise for language learners in general, I would say, because you have to pick a new word and make a short presentation about this. That will certainly help you to increase your vocabulary because when you have these words and you have to prepare and do a task about that, that is more meaningful than just making random list of vocabulary. So, I think that’s a great tip for the listeners of this podcast.
Brenden: Absolutely.
Marco: So we have this exercise. I don’t know if you have any other tips to overcome this anxiety? Or what I’m noticing normally people, when they’re speaking a different language is the filler words. How can you practice for removing all of those?
Brenden: Yeah, absolutely, Marco. So the way that you get rid of ums and ahs is by replacing them with pauses. So instead of going “ah, ah, ah” you do this (adds long pause).
So now the question is, why do we say filler words in the first place? The main reason is for us to buy time. So let’s say you ask me a question I don’t know the answer, I’ll go “ahhh” and I’ll give you an answer.
Marco: In Spanish is normally is “eh”… Or normally people I hear “este, este” and they’re filling that space. That’s right.
Brenden: I love that. I learned something new, too. I didn’t know that was the word in Spanish.
Marco: “Este” or “eh”….That’s…
Brenden: So we’re using this to buy ourselves time to think. So what do the best speakers in the world do? Because they’re not smarter than us. The only difference is they say nothing to buy time. So if you ask me a question instead of going “eh” or “ah”… I’ll look at you straight in the eyes and I’ll say “Marco, great point”. So I’m still buying time. I’m just saying nothing.
But now the question becomes, how do you practice this? I don’t think your audience will do it, but if you do it, you’ll get better at it really, really quickly. It’s called the endless gaze. Here’s what you do.
Marco: The endless gaze?
Brenden: Yeah, the endless gaze. So here’s what you do. Pick somebody you love in your house: Mom, brother, sister, wife —doesn’t matter–, husband. Sit them down and stare into their eyes for three minutes without saying a word.
Marco: But wouldn’t that feel weird when you’re doing that, staring people like two or three minutes?
Brenden: Correct. That’s the point. That’s exactly the point. So when you do this for two to three minutes, you’re allowed to blink, but you’re not allowed to say anything.
Marco: Okay.
Brenden: What happens is you get really comfortable with long pauses. So you’re uncomfortable at the beginning, but you get really comfortable pausing after. So then when you go back to your speeches, you could easily pause for two seconds because no one’s pausing for three minutes in the real world. But if you’re practicing that, when you go back into your life. Like today, I did this a lot. I paused a lot today so that I could think on what I want to say next. But nobody notices it because they just go “Oh, Brendan is just thinking about or he’s about to share something really important.” So that’s how you practice it.
Marco: That’s a very good one. Yeah, I will try to do that. My wife will ask “Marco, ¿qué pasa? What’s going on?” But, yeah, let’s give it a try.
And Brendan, what other skills from public speaking can listeners of this podcast learn to improve their Spanish confidence when they’re speaking this language?
Brenden: Yeah, absolutely, Marco. I’ll give you a couple of other ones. But the most important thing, Marco, is “are we doing the exercises?” It’s like with language learning, right? At the end of the day, we could learn all of these great tips on the podcast, but if you’re not going out there and practicing the language, nothing’s going to happen for you. So book 15 minutes in your calendar to just do the exercise every day. The random word exercise only takes five minutes a day to do, and then I’ll give you other ones.
The second one is the question drill, Marco. We get asked questions all the time in our life, but most of us don’t really have the answer to the question or we don’t know. So I’ll give you an example with me a few years ago when somebody asked me the question “Hey, Brenden, where does the fear of communication come from?” I looked at him and I said: “I don’t know, man. Los Angeles, Mexico City?” Like, I don’t know where the fear comes from. So I was really lost. So how did I fix this? Every single day, Marco, I answered one question that I thought the world would ask me about my expertise until I had an answer for everything.
So, I mean, I’m still figuring it out, but until I have the answer for most things. So day one was, what tips do you have for introverts? Day two is how do you present it in a second language? Day three was, how do you overcome your fear of communication? But here’s the punchline, Marco. One question a day for five minutes for a year, and you’ll have answered 365 questions about your industry. And you’ll be bulletproof. But for this audience, I’ll change the exercise a little bit. Instead of it being about your business or your expertise, make it a common question that somebody would ask you in life in general and just answer it in Spanish, right? So one day would be like, how was your day in Spanish?
Marco: Yeah. For example, that one would be ” Hey, ¿Qué tal tu día?” if somebody asked me “¿Qué tal tu día?”, what would I reply in Spanish? “Todo bien”.
Brenden: Exactly. And then you would come up with like 50 other questions like “How are you?” In Spanish. “¿Como estás?” I’m guessing?
Marco: Yeah, very good. Yeah, very good pronunciation. You have a very good pronunciation.
Brenden: I got one.
Marco: “¿Cómo estás?”, “¿Qué haces?”, “¿A qué te dedicas?”… What do you do, for example, for a living? “¿A qué te dedicas?”. That kind of questions every day. Imagine the amount of phrases in Spanish that you would have in your repertoire if you do this exercise.
Brenden: Correct. And then another one would be like… I know it in Italian, which is random, but I don’t know in Spanish, like, where is the bank? “dov’è la Banca?”, which is like in Italian. And in Spanish, you would give it…
Marco: ¿Dónde está el banco?
Brenden: Yeah, there you go. Probably.
Marco: Where is the bank? That’s it?
Brenden: Yeah, exactly.
Marco: Ah, yeah. “¿Dónde está el banco?”
Brenden: Or like “¿Dónde está la biblioteca?” or something…
Marco: Oh yeah. And trying to practice the answer. Okay, If somebody asked me “¿Dónde está la biblioteca?”, what would we replay? “Okay, caminas por esta calle”, you go down the street. “Luego cruzas”, you cross the street. It’s a very good exercise.
Brenden: Yeah. So that’s another thing that people can do as well. And then for presenting, it could be you guess the questions that you think your audience will ask you, and you prepare the answers in advance so you’re less stressed at the presentation. That’s one.
And then my last one is probably video messages. Make a list of three. You know, it would be fun in Spanish, actually, let me give it an English, then in Spanish. So in English, it would be, pick three people that you love the most in your life a brother, a friend, a sister, and send them a 20-second video message and say, “hey, I’m thinking about you. I hope you’re having a wonderful day. I’m super grateful to have you in my life.” But in Spanish, what could be interesting, I’m actually creating these tips right now…
Marco: They could send it to me, maybe. Send a video to me.
Brenden: Or like friends that you have who speak Spanish. So, like, let’s say you’re Italian, but you have three friends that you know who speak Spanish.
Marco: Right.
Brenden: So the challenge would be sending them a video message in Spanish to blow their mind.
Marco: Let’s make it a challenge in this podcast. If they send me the video… I’ll provide feedback for that.
Brenden: There you go.
Marco: So, Brenden, this has been a great conversation. I think people will find a lot of incredible tips. And I want to add maybe you can even put it on steroids and create a podcast in Spanish. That could be also a very good exercise to practice your communication skills.
When I started creating this podcast, because I do this podcast in English, which, as you have noticed, is not my first language, but it helped me a lot also to feel confident.
Brenden: Absolutely, right. And you’re a great example of this, Marco, because your English is just fine. It’s really, really good. But that’s the thing. As long as you don’t bring that energy to the show, people don’t notice it. They just go “Oh, yeah, Marco’s, English is perfect” unless we bring it up. So really good reminder for all of us.
Marco: Yeah. I always say also that even if people make fun of you, because I have to say, people have made fun of my accent, but I don’t care. And that’s the mindset I have when I speak a different language, because I think if I get my message across and people understand, I’m fine, I’m fine with that. So, yeah, it’s also a matter of having the right attitude when you’re doing this.
Brenden: Absolutely. And honestly, anyone who makes fun of your accent is probably a bad person.
Marco: I don’t care. They used to do this a lot at university. Also, I used to have a very broken accent, even more than now, but I didn’t care. I just continued doing this until I got better and people could understand. So…
Brenden: I love that.
